Why unemployment sites crash but Netflix doesn’t

  ਦ੍ਰਿਸ਼ 257,763

The Verge

6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ

State unemployment insurance systems are getting crushed by a flood of applicants, cutting off people at the worst possible time. But why can’t those systems scale up like Netflix or Zoom? Figuring out the answer means diving deep into the way those systems were coded, and the mixed blessing of COBOL.
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The Verge
The Verge 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Is there anything else you want us to talk about on The Big Picture?
Adam Hutton
Adam Hutton 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
A deep dive into the years of attempts by states to replace these mainframe systems would be interesting to see (its not just unemployment insurance, but all kinds of defined benefits systems). There were attempts in '01 and '08, but funding often dried up or contracts resulted in millions spent with only band-aids applied. These types of systems are the hidden infrastructure that society runs on, not as visible as bridges, but their effectiveness affects people just the same. Even when they do succeed, often the public doesn't notice (or may not even be aware). Also, props is due to the unsung engineers who have kept these systems going for so long.
ASAP ATHEIST 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
P B 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
how to learn to code
David Aston
David Aston 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Ah yes the virus... the political, media and $ motivated virus where your rights will be taken away AFTER when it's normal (because all of us wearing masks and being antisocial due to government rules is NORMAL?) anything they want to push onto you only needs some of that magic C019 sauce added to it. And gullible manipulated people who've had their fears used against them (again) will fall for it like they have for hundreds or thousands of years.
JRLM 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Covid19 exposing just how much of a 3rd world country america truly is.
Cat Lover
Cat Lover 2 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Interesting... Thanks.
Sven Johannsen
Sven Johannsen 3 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
The bottom line is they haven't spent the money to fix it. The answer to the titular question, Why unemployment sites crash but Netflix doesn’t, is more basic. Netfix makes money on it's web services, the unemployment sites, and gov in general, do not. Beyond that, the government must answer to many people who don't care, when they want to upgrade services. Netfilix must answer to many people who do care, if they don't upgrade their services.
Jeffrey Lewis
Jeffrey Lewis 3 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Good high level explanation. It bears mentioning that it's far easier generally for private enterprise to hop on a public cloud provider and scale out vs. the government, which is under more scrutiny from both a sensitive-data standpoint and a tax-dollar-appropriation standpoint.
JebacTych Policjantow
JebacTych Policjantow 3 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
'Cobol' is not the issue; compile with gnu cobol for x86. This isn't even oversimplified, it's just watery. The entire infrastructure is the issue. The government isnt the one which needs to handle the hosting. There is nothing wrong with COBOL, other than expressiveness, it doesn't 'force you to treat your servers like pets'. The issue is hardware, not software. Anyone could write a COBOL compiler for any architecture for any reason and artificially break the language's specfication to allow interop with os/firmware.
walmartdog1142 3 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
I don't know whether Indiana's online unemployment system depends on Cobol or not, but I've never seen it crash, and it works pretty damn good !
SupaSillyMexi 3 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
wow, I always wondered why that happened, thank you for the explanation
Jonathan Lau
Jonathan Lau 3 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
This shows private is better!
Thomas Nielsen
Thomas Nielsen 4 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Reminds me about a person complaining about long lines at post office, that same person probably also complain about high taxes
BJ Esmailbegui
BJ Esmailbegui 4 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
I tell you what.. even modern upgrades can have the same issues... I know of companies trying to move off their legacy system to a modern solution and it's a huge train wreck... it's extremely complex.... god i hate software..
E. Camilo
E. Camilo 4 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Who classified the United States a developed country?
Craig Purcell
Craig Purcell 4 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Encouraging that our governments are so far behind and can’t get their act together.
MisceryYT 4 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Bruh states are too cheap when it comes to the government computer system. I'm a programmer btw.....
PhantomEagle 4 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
In conclusion, they just can't be bothered.
reimann4 4 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Ignore technical debt at your peril - I've worked on many systems where technical debt was never addressed. You can pay for it now, or later. Sadly most companies and government never address it until their backs are against the wall and have no choice but to deal with it. This isn't an issue with COBOL (or any language by itself), but neglect and the lack of upgrading and developing scalable systems that can handle the increased loads.
mudpuddlepanda 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Who maintains their codebase in COBOL in 2020?
Jan Hertsens
Jan Hertsens 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Most of these are excuses. The websites ARE NOT RUNNING COBOL. They are supposed to be collecting data that then gets spoon-fed to the COBOL-running mainframes in a neat queue. TLDR: COBOL may be the reason your cheque is late, but NOT that the site crashes.
Scott Wilkins
Scott Wilkins 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Not sure what box this guy came out of, but all the Government sites I've worked on were not written in Cobol. They just didn't have the hardware infrastructure setup right. Lowest bidder issues.
pixellyth 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Xerno Tec
Xerno Tec 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
It’s called sense of priorities
Black Lives Matter
Black Lives Matter 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Damn whoelse codes in COBOL these days?
David Chipman
David Chipman 4 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Cesar Guevara
Cesar Guevara 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Mortals out there: "Is JuSt A wEbPaGe!"
Pallavi Modi
Pallavi Modi 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Zoom does go down btw
Alin mathuo
Alin mathuo 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
زي موقع مركز قياس 🔰
David 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Can't young people learn COBOL? Maybe just give it a new cool name. That's frequently what "new" technologies are mostly about anyway.
Bill Reals
Bill Reals 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Learned it in college, It's pronounced "kow·baal" not "kow-bol"
John Hamilton
John Hamilton 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Love cobol.
Victor Marbus
Victor Marbus 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
ironically youtube went down just when i tried to watch this
Pranjal Goyal
Pranjal Goyal 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Just make a new website
triadwarfare 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
I remember our government in the PH rebuilt their entire NBI clearance database because of a dispute with the former contractor. I don't know what kinds of data these governments store in COBOL, but they should have a migration process in place rather than keep using the old system.
triadwarfare 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
COBOL seems to be synonymus with the mainframe systems used by businesses and airports today. There's an undeniable upside of using mainframe vs a modern database: it's extremely fast and secure (as long as you don't leak a password and put access in the open internet). There's a video by Linus about mainframe systems and why this ancient systems are still in use today
Sharishth Singh
Sharishth Singh 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
This is an example of why dev or service providers should constantly update software or service which is used constantly.
Ujjwal Kumar
Ujjwal Kumar 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
watching this as an back end dev 😂
Szilágyi Ervin
Szilágyi Ervin 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
"It's not that COBOL is a bad programming language" - I'm a so called "web engineer" and I can tell you that COBOL is pretty bad.
tsuguminxken 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
This still happens with private company, the people they first laid off are almost always IT staff, its basically as if the company are laying off their firefighters
William Poetra Yoga
William Poetra Yoga 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Well then maybe they can outsource the maintenance and upgrade to Netflix?
Wei B
Wei B 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
that's how America operates anyway, on future money to make life better now. It'll catch up once they can't pay for the national debt payments.
Henrique Baldin
Henrique Baldin 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Bad developers and terrible architecture plus neglected infrastructure is the recipe for disaster. And still, many really large companies have horrendous code base that never stops to grow. You reap what you sow
Baru 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Netflix puts the money where their mouth is. The gov only cares the rich people keep their money
Tyler Stone
Tyler Stone 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
"We're gonna have to pay for it" FED : Hold my Trillion .
John Mendoza
John Mendoza 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Urban Pictures
Urban Pictures 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
There's money for Netflix to be coded properly. For government sites....
KimchiMan 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Private company vs government..lol that's economy 101, you should learn Verge
Arsallan 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
I love "The big picture" series. It's so informative
Cédric Coulombe
Cédric Coulombe 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Public vs Private ? dis gon b gud
Duran 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
This is misleading. You have limited & oversimplified the problem 🤦‍♂️
Daan VDH
Daan VDH 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Well yeah, it's 6 minute video made for a broad audience. You could make an entire series for this subject and you would still not be able to talk about everything.
Christophe Breland
Christophe Breland 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
hard to pay for things when they keep cutting taxes
几多Kes 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
America: wanted a small government. Santa: wish granted.
Oleh Khomey
Oleh Khomey 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
damn... zoo, pets, cobol, servers, cloud, amazon... really? Why didn't you cover "wrong people deal with the problem" thing, like in this particular video?
DONFN 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Well... My country's infrastructure is written almost entirely in Java. Can't decide what's worse...
glbernini0 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Good opportunity for Trump to step up and actually improve something that really needs improvement!
Eudald 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Notable addition: A bank needs all operations to be handled in order, because one operation could invalidate the next one. You can’t withdraw $10 from an account with $10 at the same time and get $20. Netflix, however, doesn’t really care about this type of problem. Netflix is SO MUCH MORE easier to decentralise than a bank is. Netflix’s video database changes what, once per day? A bank’s database changes every millisecond.
Trenton Leslie
Trenton Leslie 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Have you ever heard of microservices? This allows developers to change code and push updates without breaking the entire service. Of course Netflix and Banks don't have the same concerns as far as accuracy and precision. A bank could and should run on a decentralized system to prevent an attack on a centralized server system. Modern encryption allows sensitive information to be stored on remote, third party servers without worry. If the server provider is reputable (AWS, Azure, G-Cloud) then the bank will not need to worry about downtime or security. We live in a world where you can literally throw more money at a problem and there are experts who can give you the result you're looking for in a matter of seconds.
William Wang
William Wang 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
well if they switch the system from opt-in to opt-out, then they can reduce the load significantly. They can get their money back from people who shouldn't have got the money afterwards when they file their taxes.
howdareyou41 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
So the answer is because the government isn't funded
Michael Dreyfus-Pai
Michael Dreyfus-Pai 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Does this also relate to the problems of the federal health care website back when the ACA launched?
mal naai
mal naai 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
LoL LORD BLESS ME WITH THE EXCUSES. if the american public falls for this lousy excuse then they deserve all pains that will come from sleep walking thru life. cos the lord knows, software aint as complicated as the verge makes it out to be lol. the US government *literally* has all the money in the world but they cant maintain the basics?! how complex are these data structures in the all mighty COBOL. perhaps declare WAR on COBOL. lol now thats n good use of money. but hey the american public like being taken for n fool.
Tony Yu
Tony Yu 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
That is why future-proofing is so important. Not only self-preserve but also a way to see yourself out.
ZenBrane 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
I'm gonna guess money.
David Aston
David Aston 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Public unemployed and non unemployed have been over reliant on welfare for decades? How it is any different now? It isn't. The public only believe it because that's how it's framed in videos like this. Truth? As I said before we've become WAY too reliant on the government and others handing out to us than BEING reliant on OURSELVES.
John Cat
John Cat 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
I was interviewed for a job with them years ago. I warned them that they need to upgrade, I made a stern warning to the person I spoke to. He did not care at all! All they want to do is put a band aid on it and move on. The sad fact is that they are never going to move on.
Sungai Petani
Sungai Petani 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
The notorious buu i just need to be super saiyan kame hame ha those keep asking $$ . hehehe
The notorious buu
The notorious buu 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Sungai Petani You need the manager to fire people who don’t achieve the kpi goals.
Sungai Petani
Sungai Petani 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
The notorious buu unprofit but that how to get contract and paid staff expenses.
The notorious buu
The notorious buu 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Sungai Petani Profit is how a business functions. Thief from tax dollars is how a government functions. So. You need management to be the business mind and think critically with actual kpi goals that would get the program running correctly. Someone like that would make way more money in the private sector.
Sungai Petani
Sungai Petani 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
you don't tell they need to upgrade, you have to tell them how much they can profit if they buy new system.. ehm ehm.. that's how government work.
Ludwig 234
Ludwig 234 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Irfan 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
totally BS, your research missing so much , netflix video streaming and account database totally different .. boss dont put your hand which u have no logic ..
TheWeedOperation 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
When your are in maintenance and people just don't realise what you do is important
Nadeem Mohammed
Nadeem Mohammed 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
How difficult is it to move to a server less architecture?
NP Complete
NP Complete 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Grace Hopper, Legend!
Krisztián Kőrösi
Krisztián Kőrösi 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
There are going to be many great lessons for big institutions like governments or banks, all of which tend to handle their system this way. Regards from a dev.
Jesus Enrique Gutierrez Cortazar
Jesus Enrique Gutierrez Cortazar 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Chester benning was reborn as an engineer
Ymi_Yugy 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
It seems hard to believe that rebuilding these systems from scratch would be so expensive that it hasn't been done in 40 years.
Wrongderful 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
If I learn COBOL, and you give me 2x standard US programmers. I'll be happy to handle this.
Amritansh Singhal
Amritansh Singhal 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
I'm a programmer and this is the first time I've heard of COBOL
John Stramiello
John Stramiello 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Guy working in government: Hey why do we still use a very outdated system for our websites? Another guy working in government: LOL you actually want to pay people on unemployment/disability conveniently?! Guy #1: I mean they need the money... Guy #2: Thats my point! Thats basically it in a nutshell.
JasonBarnes 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
This title is aids
Shantanu Dubey
Shantanu Dubey 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
So what. There are lot of unemployed software engineering, who can work together under government and update everything.....
Jack Yarrow
Jack Yarrow 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
That title is aids
Vince Mondiguing
Vince Mondiguing 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Title typo?
Andrew Johnson
Andrew Johnson 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
What's with the title?
yeetus fetus
yeetus fetus 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
The title is high?? No one is talking about this
Anjuraj Rajan
Anjuraj Rajan 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
I am a COBOL developer
Carson Saldanha
Carson Saldanha 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Is there a typo in the title?
Jimmy Jeong
Jimmy Jeong 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
The title made my brain crash
Nishant Thakkar
Nishant Thakkar 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Does that title make sense?
MrNvbeatz 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Very informative. Even though I'm a Cobol coder, I was exposed to the network and server limitations.
TroyAbedMorning 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
So they don't load balance. The end.
Your Usurper
Your Usurper 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
I hate government a little less now.
foley2k2 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
NetCOBOL runs on the .Net framework. There is a way to cutover to modern technology.
willinton06 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
foley2k2 sounds like good news to C# developers
Леонид Деяк
Леонид Деяк 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
It is time to switch to Pascal, guys. Never heard about such innovative programming language?
Vasudevan Mohan
Vasudevan Mohan 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
The BIG PICTURE series are our favorite. Simple and Understandable from common man point of view.
Z 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Cobol teachings at colleges ended in 1980 when Microsoft started to promote C#, and now C+++. Also, Visual Basic took over Cobol but Visual Basic was discontinued in favor of C++ by Microsoft by 2009. I have those collected book right in front of me right now! Now is all about Python, Java Kotlin, & still C++ and of course frameworks and HTML as the main front end language replacing PHP. This is what people are coding on right now. All of these COBOL people have died, retired, or went on to teaching. It's just the way things are. Me I am in the HTML, CSS, FrameWork, SQL, JavaScript box for web development. And my time for using Python will also come in another 18 years from now! It's just the way it is. How many mechanics nowadays really know how to mess with a carburetor right out of school ? Probably none!
Sakshi Chopra
Sakshi Chopra 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Website: it is a website! Netflix: is not just a website it's a whole network!!
Jimmy's World Tour
Jimmy's World Tour 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Dude talks like band camp chick from American Pie
Daniel Astillero
Daniel Astillero 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Netflix uses FORTRAN instead if COBOL
BenjaminLee2009 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
One site gives free money, the other collects money. Of course the one giving money will crash. Duh.
UnrealProductions 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Public sector vs private sector innovation at work folks
abhishek lomsh
abhishek lomsh 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
government doesn’t want to shift! That’s it!
RUSL Bicycle
RUSL Bicycle 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Why can't they just virtualize it and put it in a cloud? Maybe simple OS images don't already exist like they do for CentOS... but you could make them, couldn't you? I expect it would be hard but if you're throwing Billions of Dollars at it it seems pulling a team together to do that one task (make an interpreter to run COBOL inside of a modern deployable disk image) would be do-able. We have lots of ways to do that made by hobbyists that can run old games and such. If you had money you wouldn't even need to reverse engineer or re-invent (you could buy the rights to COBOL source or whatever). I don't get it. But I'm not a programmer. Also, a lot of these websites are simple text forms. It's not like we need to supply scrubbed video on demand. I get that it would be hard to interact with a large public database that has to be private and conform to a lot of government legal requirements. But that seems like a single problem there. I agree that it's about neglecting maintenance. But it also seems like a choice to not even try? Anyway when they finally get around to it I definately recommend they use a FOSS approach so they don't get locked into another technological dead end in the future.
Jan Hertsens
Jan Hertsens 5 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
You can easily run COBOL in the clouds today. The problem is NOT the language. The front-end websites that he is talking about are NOT written in COBOL. They crash because of incompetence, not language.
Oemar BGS
Oemar BGS 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
same issue in Indonesia. with Prakerja sites.
Anton 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Interesting video. Do other countries use the cattle approach? And do their governments manage it, or do they outsource that task to a private company like Amazon web services?
Max M
Max M 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
Net neutrality?
Soumyadeep Ghosh
Soumyadeep Ghosh 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
here's a COBOL Programmer looking at the current scenario and having a sad smile
Daniel Winter
Daniel Winter 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
The bigger question is: why have other countries managed to get their act together while the US hasn't?
ricky 6 ਮਹੀਨੇ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ
my dude whats on your head ?
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